我不相信任何东西——采访克里希那穆提

我不相信任何东西——凯瑟琳-英格拉姆和罗纳德-雅各布采访克里希那穆提(东西方杂志,1983年7月)
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EWJ:
你相信转世轮回吗?
K: First of all, I don’t
believe in anything. Secondly, what is it that is going to be
reborn? Say I have been suffering for ten years and I die. Now will
I in my next life go on from where I left off? Is there
individuality at all? Is there the ego—my ego, your ego, a
spiritual essence, the atman? The highest principle?
 
克:首先,我不相信任何东西。其次,将要转世轮回的是什么呢?比方说,我遭受了十年痛苦,然后我死了。那么,我将我的下一生从我离开的地方继续接着受苦吗?究竟存在个性吗?存在自我——我的自我,你的自我,一种灵性本质,灵魂——吗?存在道吗?
 
EWJ: Perhaps it’s just a
process.
 
EWJ:可能那只是一种过程。
 
K: What is that? It’s a process
of thought. There is nothing sacred about thought, nor about the
things that thought has created in the churches of the world. They
worship it but it’s not sacred. There is something absolutely
sacred but you can’t pick it up casually, you can’t just believe.
Do you understand? Men have searched for this in different ways and
never found it, they have given their lives to it. It can’t be
found in an afternoon conversation or reading a book, or going to
some fanciful meditation. If you don’t find it what’s the point of
all this? One has to work on this for years to find out. It isn’t
just a game that you play. But people haven’t the time so they
worship the one who has something. Or they kill him. Both are the
same— whether they worship or kill, both are exactly the
same.
 
克:那是什么?它是一种思想的过程。思想没有任何神圣可言,在全世界的教会中思想所创造的事物也是如此。他们崇拜思想,但思想并不神圣。存在某种绝对神圣的东西,但你无法以有因果关系的方式捡起它,你不能只是相信。你理解吗?一个人必须长时间地工作去发现这种东西,它不只是你玩的一个游戏。但人们没有时间,所以他们崇拜拥有那种东西的人,或者,他们杀掉他。两者是一样的——无论他们崇拜他还是杀掉他,两者是完全一样的。
 
EWJ: Isn ‘t there some
possibility of transmission between individuals?
 
EWJ:在个体之间存在某种传递的可能吗?
 
K: Now you are with somebody
who is a little peaceful and who doesn’t want a thing from you, and
you feel quiet. But you have what? You have taken a drug for the
time being and the moment you leave here it will all go. It’s so
obvious.
 
克:现在你是在与一个稍微和平的人呆在一起;他不想从你那里得到点什么,因而你感到平静。但你拥有什么呢?你现在服用了一种毒品,而你一离开这里,那种平静就完全离你而去。事情如此明显。
 
EWJ: But if we are climbing
some mountain and we’ve come to see you because it seems that you
are a few steps ahead..
 
EWJ:但如果我们是在爬某座山峰,那么我们来看你,因为你好像比我们稍前几步…
 
K: I don’t believe in climbing.
There is no climbing, no “I am this, I have become that.” There is
only this. Change this, that’s all.
 
克:我不相信“爬山”这种说法。不存在什么山要爬,不存在“我是这样,我变成了那样。”只存在“这样”。改变“这样”,那就是全部。
 
EWJ: Why do you
teach?
 
EWJ:你为什么进行教导?
 
K: Why does a flower
bloom?
 
克:一朵花为什么开放呢?